Optometrists Building Empires

OBE_Ashley Tucker
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[00:00:00]

Ankit Patel: guest is someone I'm really excited to introduce you all to.

She's

She's a nationally recognized expert in specially contact lenses and myopia management.

She's

a director of the Contact Lens Institute of Houston, which is a clinic she founded to provide advanced contact lens solutions for patients with complex eye conditions.

She's a

a frequent lecturer at National International Conferences and proudly represents leading companies such as Bausch and Lam, CooperVision and Topcon.

She's

a medical co-editor of Review of Myopia Management.

She

She is partner and optometrist at Bellaire Family [00:01:00] Eyecare. Please welcome Dr. Ashley Tucker.

will,

Ashley Tucker: Thank you

so much.

Awesome.

So, you

Ankit Patel: you know, you have a unique growth, uh, path that a lot of optometrists may be interested in, but they may not know how to get into it. So,

uh,

uh, what kind of, what was the most important thing that helped you kind of grow your empire around contact lens

management

and specializing There I.

Combined Speaker: Yeah. So as a fourth year optometry student,

I was dead set on graduating, being done, not even considering a, a residency.

then one of my

contact lens attendings just saw something in me that I didn't even see in myself. Like

Ashley Tucker: I,

Combined Speaker: apparently I did something great in the contact lens clinic,

um, and she recommended that I.

Ashley Tucker: I.

Combined Speaker: Think about the contact lens residency

Ashley Tucker: anywhere, but

Combined Speaker: specifically at UHCO where I graduated from.

So

I considered it and I got it, and I tell students to this day that that was the leading

Ashley Tucker: decision

Combined Speaker: I made that kind of catapulted my career in a direction that I really didn't see coming with just specializing in cornea and contact lens. [00:02:00]

Nice.

Ankit Patel: And

Combined Speaker: what,

Ankit Patel: um,

Combined Speaker: Why

Ankit Patel: why.

go into starting a specialty clinic? Why, why do lecturing? Why not just, um, say, okay, I'm just gonna kind of tailor my fit, uh, to what I wanna do. Why not practice for someone else? Like, help me understand the decisions that you've made to do it. Do it on your own, and build something more than just, uh, uh, just practicing.

Combined Speaker: Yeah,

Ashley Tucker: well,

Combined Speaker: I'll give you a little bit more backstory. So after my residency, I started working for my now partner who was my, also one of my, um, externship site

Ashley Tucker: So

Combined Speaker: she had a binocular vision, really pediatric

Ashley Tucker: practice. I

Combined Speaker: did a lot of vision therapy

and

she asked me just at a random meeting that we reconnected at, to come and start a specialty contact lens

Ashley Tucker: practice.

Combined Speaker: within

her

Ashley Tucker: practice.

Combined Speaker: So

I was like, no way. Like how can I do that with most of your pa, your patients are kids? You know, I like, I wanna do see

Ashley Tucker: specialty

Combined Speaker: lens patients. I thought that's all [00:03:00] I thought I wanted to see.

So

I took a leap of faith and I did. So I

was able to start

Ashley Tucker: specialty

Combined Speaker: lenses.

from,

from the ground up. But because it was a pediatric

Ashley Tucker: practice,

Combined Speaker: it had a lot of potential myopia management patients there. So that

Ashley Tucker: that

Combined Speaker: the practice took two different directions,

Ashley Tucker: specialty

Combined Speaker: lenses and myopia management.

Um, so then eventually, once that part of the practice grew up to a point that.

Ashley Tucker: that

Combined Speaker: was

really

lucrative, really profitable, I bought into that practice.

I basically bought the part of the practice that I started. So we, we have, there's three of us. So there's, we have

three,

three owners, three partners within the practice.

Ankit Patel: Nice. That's That's amazing.

Combined Speaker: pretty That's pretty cool actually.

Ashley Tucker: Yeah.

Ankit Patel: and so what, what was it that, as you were growing that side of the business and growing into this, what is something that you ran into that you didn't expect It could have been before you bought in, it could have been after you bought in.

Combined Speaker: What

Ankit Patel: What were some of the, um, things that were like unexpected?

Combined Speaker: Yeah, I thought it would be a lot harder to start the specialty contact lens

Ashley Tucker: practice than

Combined Speaker: it actually [00:04:00] was. Now, it wasn't easy, don't, don't get me wrong, but I started with zero. I mean, I didn't walk into a practice that had.

Ashley Tucker: Onic

Combined Speaker: patients. I had irregular cornea. I mean, it was really starting from ground zero.

Ashley Tucker: zero.

Combined Speaker: So just establishing a relationship with one corneal specialist in town

made the world of a difference. So it, took several years, I think at the five-year mark, I really felt like I had launched. I really had created what I wanted.

but

establishing

the relationship with one ophthalmologist that was.

Open to being optometry friendly, open to

allowing me to do the things that I could do to benefit his

patients, which is what he calls, putting the cherry on top after he's done all the things that he can do for them. I fit them in these lenses and it changes their lives. So

creating

synergistic relationship was

A

lot easier than I thought it would be.

And then after that, it just

Ashley Tucker: word got

Combined Speaker: around that, you know, I'm a person that you can send your specialty contact lens

Ashley Tucker: patients

Combined Speaker: So that again, it, it was.

it

That was intimidating, but again, easier than I thought it would be.

Okay, Okay. That's, that's [00:05:00] actually,

Ankit Patel: um, uh, encouraging you to know, Right. You just do the good work And then people come. Yeah. then the patients will come.

Combined Speaker: Yeah. Yeah. That's awesome. Uh, and, and was it, was it the fact that, um, what were you doing differently? Was it something unique in the market?

do do other people in your local area doing this?

Ankit Patel: Like, how, what separated you from everyone else?

Combined Speaker: So at the time, so I graduated, oh my gosh, 15 years ago. So at the time in Houston, you know, of course there were specialty fitters, and I'm not here to say I'm the best specialty fitter in Houston, but I a, a slightly different approach. I really feel like. like.

I get to know the patient. I spend a lot of time and listening that that's the thing I heard over and over again.

Like, you're, you're, you're listening. You know, a lot of doctors have a limited amount of time, so I made sure I set enough time aside, 45 minutes for these these consults, for these fits to really get to know the patients, get to know their needs. 'cause a lot of them have complicated history. So I don't think I was necessarily fitting any differently or using any.

Ashley Tucker: any. Divine products. I just took the time to really [00:06:00] get to know patients. Um, and that's created um, this vibe in our office that PE people really appreciate.

Ankit Patel: Gotcha.

Combined Speaker: Uh, and you said something really that caught my attention there.

Um,

Ankit Patel: are you 45 minutes

Combined Speaker: hour per to an hour per.

Yeah. Yeah. In the, in the beginning,

now, I no longer

Ashley Tucker: set

Combined Speaker: that much, but in the beginning I had, I had the time, so

Ankit Patel: Yeah.

Combined Speaker: But

that paid dividends. Like

Ashley Tucker: Like

Combined Speaker: I, I didn't have a lot of

Ashley Tucker: patience, so

Combined Speaker: I was able to spend that time, but it created.

The, this, these lasting relationships, these super loyal

Ashley Tucker: patients.

Combined Speaker: And our, our staff was a lot smaller back then, so

it, it really was just me and a tech. Now we have 35

Ashley Tucker: employees,

Combined Speaker: 10 techs, um,

Ashley Tucker: multiple

Combined Speaker: a semester. So I don't put aside as much time,

Ashley Tucker: time, but

Combined Speaker: still spends that much time in the practice. But

we

rotate between different team members. But the patient still feels very cared for and still feels like they're getting enough time with me.

Gotcha.

Ankit Patel: Gotcha.

Combined Speaker: Interesting.

Ankit Patel: Uh,

and [00:07:00] so when, when you, um.

Combined Speaker: when

Ankit Patel: When you were building your practice like that, what, what made you want to,

Combined Speaker: uh,

Ankit Patel: uh, continue to grow it and what, what makes you want to still continue to grow it? Like what, what drives you?

Combined Speaker: Yeah.

You know, the writing is on the wall with the competition that we have with all these online retailers. Um, these,

these, um,

Ashley Tucker: entities that are.

Combined Speaker: are.

Ashley Tucker: Providing

Combined Speaker: a service but not providing care. There's, there's definitely a difference there. So

Ashley Tucker: I

Combined Speaker: that I wanted to differentiate myself

to the, to the point where

our practice

could, could

it could excel beyond these.

Ashley Tucker: Deters

in

Combined Speaker: the market.

Ashley Tucker: So

Combined Speaker: I, I knew we had to create something special in our practice. So

Ashley Tucker: reinventing

Combined Speaker: constantly was important. So any chance that I, I get, I'm acquiring new equipment, I'm acquiring new lens products,

I'm

acquiring new sub sub-services. So I initially started out with just doing, um,

Ashley Tucker: um,

Combined Speaker: specialty contact lenses, and that grew into doing a lot of orthokeratology, then grew [00:08:00] into doing

Ashley Tucker: a

Combined Speaker: lot of myopia management.

So just making sure.

That

Ashley Tucker: practice

Combined Speaker: is offering something that these,

these

Ashley Tucker: entities that

Combined Speaker: are just providing

Ashley Tucker: services

Combined Speaker: will, will allow your clinic to continue to grow and stand the test of time.

Gotcha. Okay.

I like I like it. And And what, what was it that, um,

what are are some things that you're struggling with right now as a practice?

Like Like what do you all see with, by, by doing all, uh, you know, you're doing a lot of specialty care, are there any challenges that you're hitting, whether it's insurance reimbursements, cash pay, blending, all that, or staffing?

Ankit Patel: Talk to me about that a little bit.

Combined Speaker: Yeah.

Ashley Tucker: I

Combined Speaker: would say a daily challenge, and something I think about

Ashley Tucker: a

Combined Speaker: lot is staff. is so hard

to find

staff that

Ashley Tucker: they,

they

Combined Speaker: wanna have a career of longevity. You know, it's, it's, you know, we wanna create a a, um.

Ashley Tucker: um.

Combined Speaker: And we want, in our office, I want to have staff that's there for a long time [00:09:00]

patients can

Ashley Tucker: recognize

Combined Speaker: feel comfortable when they walk in the door.

And

Ashley Tucker: remember

Combined Speaker: was the same staff member as last year.

We're constantly hearing, oh my gosh, you have a whole new front desk, or you have a whole new this, whole new that. And that's not by design, that's just

Ashley Tucker: just

Combined Speaker: the type of

staff

Ankit Patel: Yeah.

Combined Speaker: That are available that it's, it's very

Ashley Tucker: challenging.

Combined Speaker: just finding people that buy into

the, the,

vibe that we wanna have in our office as a loving, caring environment.

Um, it's, it's, it's hard to keep that, that going when you have staff turnover and then when you have young staff that just tend to have a different mindset than what we have as, and I, I guess I'm not young anymore, so like, I, it's, it's, it's, it's, I find it difficult to relate to the, the younger generation.

Um,

Ankit Patel: Um,

Combined Speaker: yeah, I

Ankit Patel: I think, um, you're not alone in, in your experiences there. I think, uh, a lot of folks,

Combined Speaker: ourselves, you know,

Ankit Patel: you know, we've had this similar

Combined Speaker: sort of,

Ankit Patel: of, uh, conversation.

Combined Speaker: with, with,

Ankit Patel: With, with that, it's like, you know, we, we, we, we've [00:10:00] finally, now gotta the point where, okay, we have some stability over the last couple, two to three years.

But you know,

Combined Speaker: that,

Ankit Patel: that, that was a challenge too. I, I hear you. 'cause you're right, it's, well, one healthcare, I think I read somewhere it's, it's good if you get someone for 18 months in healthcare,

Combined Speaker: that's a

Ankit Patel: good,

Combined Speaker: good,

Ankit Patel: good timeframe.

Combined Speaker: That's

Ankit Patel: actually long. Uh, and so most, most folks are like within nine, like right around a year or right under a year is, is a turnover rate in most healthcare.

So,

Combined Speaker: Um,

Ankit Patel: um, I don't think you're

alone in that, by the

Combined Speaker: No, of course not. And then I guess, you know, insurance is always in reimbursement. That's always something that is evolving and changing and staying up to date and making sure we're coding and billing properly. I mean, that is a full time job that. I kind of take on with our billing specialist because I'm the one in the practice that has the most complicated billing with these specialty contact lenses.

So we're constantly having to stay abreast of, of what's new. And unfortunately it does change. Um, all of a sudden the reimbursement's less and we have to figure out why. So.

that's, that's tricky too.

Yeah, I

Ankit Patel: I think, and

it's [00:11:00] interesting, um, that, uh, so, so tell me a little bit if, whatever you're willing to share with us,

Combined Speaker: A lot

Ankit Patel: a lot of folks do myopia control as a cash pay service.

Combined Speaker: How can

Ankit Patel: can you,

Combined Speaker: as deep

Ankit Patel: deep as you want to go, you feel comfortable with, talk to us about your business model around that and like what you're doing that might be unique or different or that might be helping the patient out.

Anything that the audience can learn from.

Combined Speaker: So myopia management officially is not covered by health insurance or vision insurance. That's a pretty easy conversation to just state that, but to explain that is a whole nother thing because parents don't understand You're telling me that my child needs this, and that's the operative word.

They need it, but my insurance won't cover it at all. And it's gut-wrenching to say, unfortunately, not at this time, but our practice, you know, offers these services as a a cash pay entity. But here's the value. You know, you're getting a doctor that specializes in myopia management that is dedicated to making sure your child progresses less than they would've had they not been in a program.

You get a [00:12:00] year supply of contact lenses. I have found that putting in a pair of glasses mm-hmm. One that's at low cost to us, but still very valuable to the family, makes the world of a difference because parents are like, oh, my cake also gets glasses. It makes them feel like everything is all encompassing in that, in that global fee that I charge, um, they get.

A year's worth of services, you know, as much insertion removal training as they need to make sure their kid gets into the contact lenses appropriately. It's a concierge package and most families really see the value in that. Um, some parents come twice a year for their biannual and for their annual.

Other parents come 10 times a times a year, and you just have to meet 'em where they're at. You're gonna win some, you're gonna lose some when it comes to value for the practice. But for the most part, we're, we're. Ending up on top. So, um, to get back to your initial question, yeah, it's not covered by insurance, but I haven't found that to be much of a deterrent as long as we're selling the value before we talk about the price. Gotcha.

Ankit Patel: Gotcha.

Combined Speaker: Okay.

Ankit Patel: [00:13:00] Okay.

Combined Speaker: I,

Ankit Patel: I, I actually like that a lot and, and, making it all, um,

Combined Speaker: done for

Ankit Patel: for you type

solution, right? Like, you don't have to worry about anything here. I like that.

Combined Speaker: anything. And that global fee helps. I know there's a whole pay for pay, pay for service model. There's a subscription model.

I've tried all of that. The global fee is clean, it's easy, it's palatable. For most parents, they understand it's a onetime thing. Um, it renews annually now, of course, but they don't have to worry about it during that.

year. Like, I will take care of everything. You've paid what? Once upfront. I got it from here.

And

Ankit Patel: And I'm assuming you build in like, oh, this person might be ortho K, so we gotta build in that. And the,

Combined Speaker: that's all

Ankit Patel: all built into it. Do you, do you charge different global fees or is it just

Combined Speaker: for everyone?

I've done that in the past. I charge more for orthokeratology than like, let's say soft contact lenses, but I found that parents were then deciding.

Based on price. So now I have a flat fee for my, for the, um, soft contact lens option versus orthokeratology. And then I also make it a little, um, fluid. [00:14:00] If one, the kid does not do well in one, we can easily switch over to the other. So my fee, uh, allows me to be comfortable with doing what, literally whatever the child needs during that year. That's

Ankit Patel: That's interesting. I like that approach. I think the most common approach I've heard in what we do is

Combined Speaker: The

Ankit Patel: the services are all inclusive for all exams and everything. And materials are whatever the material costs are for what they need.

Combined Speaker: Yeah.

Ankit Patel: Yeah, that's interesting. 'cause I, I like that approach though. I think, I think patients would be more receptive to,

Combined Speaker: I

Ankit Patel: I don't have to worry about it.

You're gonna take care of me. You're the

Combined Speaker: You're gonna take care of it. Yes. Because there's always a question, well, what if my kid doesn't like overnight lenses? What if my kid can, can't put the soft lenses in and out and I can easily say, it's okay.

We will find a solution that works.

Ankit Patel: I like that it's really patient centric.

Combined Speaker: Yeah.

Ankit Patel: Cool.

Combined Speaker: So

Ankit Patel: So what is it that, um,

Combined Speaker: What?

Ankit Patel: what, what's keeping you up at night right now in terms of the industry or your business? Like, what are some things that you're facing that are challenges that, that, uh,

Combined Speaker: right now

Ankit Patel: now is like, Hey, this is

Combined Speaker: mind for me.

Yeah. So what, what irks me is the, I'm gonna [00:15:00] take this script to Costco conversation that I have every single day. Sometimes I have the energy to say, you know, you're not getting anything better at Costco than what we can offer. Like, yes, our optical is beautiful. It's a boutique style. So that's a little bit intimidating to some PA patients.

But I'll say, look, we have. Products that are comparable in price, better quality than Costco. Um, so sometimes I have the energy to have that back and forth dialogue, and other times I'm just so flabbergasted that I've spent. 30 minutes, you know, in, in this exam room, giving the patient all of my attention, refracting so well, meeting all of their needs, writing five prescriptions for everything they've asked for.

And then they asked me.

to print it, print it out, and I just don't have anything else to give. So that is like, that's what keeps me up at night, how to be more effective. In communicating, letting patients know without sounding salesy, you know? Mm-hmm. Like, oh, that, that's, that's tough. Do you have any advice?

Um,

Ankit Patel: Um, you know, it's similar to, well, [00:16:00] I, I, I don't know how good it is, but I, what I, what I hear from other folks who speak and from our experience,

Combined Speaker: um,

Ankit Patel: um, it,

Combined Speaker: it

it,

Ankit Patel: it, it is, the Costco ones are the toughest ones. We ha everyone else is like, okay, it's fine.

Combined Speaker: Like,

Ankit Patel: Like there's a, there's reasonable argument. Costco, there's just, Costco is such a good job of branding

Combined Speaker: and

Ankit Patel: and it's really tough to, to do that.

So.

Combined Speaker: you know, It is

Ankit Patel: It is just one of those things that, you know, if you want to continue to come back to us, we'll offer, we'll continue to offer a superior level of care.

Combined Speaker: Um,

Ankit Patel: Um, we, we, what we've done is, um,

Combined Speaker: um,

Ankit Patel: um,

Combined Speaker: we do

Ankit Patel: we do prescribing from the chair like a lot of people, right? And, and we do, uh, we do a little more time, we'll do like speed scores as well as some other assessments that show like, oh, these are the nuances that you might experience that are different

Combined Speaker: from what

Ankit Patel: what you get here versus there.

Combined Speaker: but that,

Ankit Patel: but that, that's still a tough thing, right? And so it's, I don't think there's an easy answer for sure.

Combined Speaker: Um,

Ankit Patel: Uh, but, but I think that you're not alone, by the way, pacing that.

Combined Speaker: Ing that. And I will say when I, when I have it in me to really sit, sit back down after I've already stood up and really give them [00:17:00] a heart to heart, you know, this. Why, and I, and I would love to earn your business. I would love for you to allow us to make these glasses.

I am honored to make these, so I use those kinds of words and a lot of the time they're like, oh, I didn't realize, you know, that you had glasses that were comparable to Costco or whatever. Most of the time it does land, but you know, there are just times where I don't have the time anymore and we've, we've done the whole mm-hmm.

Let's buzz an optician, have them come into the room and do the baton toss. That seems to be very, very effective. But, you know, we're in the, the heat of the summer where it is, we are so busy and I'll buzz the up the optician and they don't come. So then, you know, so 'cause because they're busy, they're on the floor, so there's no perfect model.

But I think that.

is probably part of the key is doing the baton toss to the optician. Yeah. So they're, they're closing instead of you. Yeah,

Ankit Patel: Yeah, we, we've, and yeah, we just find that makes a good, good experience too. So,

Combined Speaker: It definitely

Ankit Patel: yeah.

Combined Speaker: Um. well,

Ankit Patel: Well, cool. So let's shift gears a little bit. Instead of talking about some of your [00:18:00] struggles, let's talk about what you're excited about.

Combined Speaker: What,

Ankit Patel: what what is it that you're excited about, whether it's your own practice, your own future, or the industry in

Combined Speaker: both?

Sure. So we, you know, touched on myopia management. I didn't know if you could tell by my enthusiasm, that is what I love. I've shifted from, I love specialty contact lenses. I love sclerals, and that's a huge part of my practice that'll never go away, but it's not evolving as quickly as myopia management is, and that's what truly excites me.

There will never be a shortage of kids. That are myopic that are going to be in need of our care. So the, the fact that standard of care is moving towards managing and not just treating myopia, there's endless possibility for practitioners to jump on this and let this be a practice builder. Let this be something that will create longevity in their practices.

I mean, they can care from these, these kids from the time that they. You know, need glasses up until adulthood, then caring for their kids. So That's truly what excites me. Being able to be, to play [00:19:00] a real part in the, the success of these kids' lives and the trajectory of their vision. It's, it's in, it's incredible. That's awesome.

Ankit Patel: awesome.

Combined Speaker: Yeah,

Ankit Patel: Yeah, I, I, I think, I think you're onto something with that too. 'cause I, it was, I was reading like, there's a projection saying that half I, I mis,

Combined Speaker: I may,

Ankit Patel: I may be misquoting this, but half the role

Combined Speaker: myopic in a few years.

Yeah. But a year 2050. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Yeah, so, so I was, I didn't make that up, so I thought I heard that right.

I pick that up and we are well on our way to that for sure. That's

what the stats show. Yeah.

Ankit Patel: Yeah. And it's interesting 'cause like, you know, I'm curious, um,

Combined Speaker: Uh,

Ankit Patel: you hear all the things, I'm curious your perspective why that is. Just, just

Combined Speaker: it's becoming so prevalent. Yeah.

I mean, it, this is my own opinion, but I feel like it makes sense.

You know, we're living in a digital world like you and I probably, I can't speak for you, but probably didn't grow up in front of a screen as much as our kids are, you know, like we didn't have computers in schools like these kids have. Um, they, we didn't have digital devices. Our entire world revolves around a phone or a computer, so that has to have played a major role in [00:20:00] this.

Massive shift towards myopia? No, I don't think anyone can convince me otherwise. Um, the fact that kids aren't spending as much time outdoors coupled with the, the screen time, that is a huge thing. We know outdoor time will prevent the onset of myopia. So kids that aren't spending time outside like they used to.

Like I spent all summer outside with my cousins, you know. Um, I spent every weekend outside, you know, and I played sports my whole life. So I just think things are different and it's the environmental shifts. In our kids' lives that are causing at least a part of this. Yeah, no,

Ankit Patel: no, I, you know, and that's what I hear too, right? I am not a doctor by any means, but I, but I, uh, it's interesting just to, to hear about that. So

Combined Speaker: good

Ankit Patel: good news for the field is like, Hey, there's a growing segment there. While

Combined Speaker: is contact

Ankit Patel: contact lens sales might be staggered or

Combined Speaker: dropping. There's

Ankit Patel: a whole

Combined Speaker: in,

Ankit Patel: in what some people consider more exciting, more interesting field that you can expand into.

Um, so it, it's kind of, it's exciting time for the field. And that's just one al

Combined Speaker: There's

Ankit Patel: [00:21:00] dry eye and there's all sorts of specialties, contacts that you had mentioned. Yeah.

Combined Speaker: Cool. Well,

Ankit Patel: Uh, so what, um,

Combined Speaker: let's talk

Ankit Patel: talk a little bit about your journey into practice ownership.

Combined Speaker: And,

Ankit Patel: And, and kind of the reasons why you made that leap.

I'm curious, uh, we talked about it briefly, but can you, uh, can you kind of dig into a little bit more about why it was important for you to be a practice owner

Combined Speaker: just keep doing what you're doing? Yeah.

Yeah.

That was a, i, I, I came to a crossroads, so I'll get you to that point. So I had no intention of owning ever.

Like I was 100% happy being an associate doctor, um, making a very good living. I was on a great bonus schedule with my now partner. I was doing well, honestly, there was really no reason for me to purchase. But then one day, probably at that five-year mark where things were going really well, I just started studying the numbers and thinking like, you know.

Partnership was [00:22:00] already, ownership was al was always on the table. My partner now always put that on the table and I just kept delaying it. And then I, it just clicked like, what? Like, I, this doesn't make sense for me to be an associate doctor, um, making this kind of money for the practice, you know, um, and not owning this portion of the practice.

So. Again, it was a light bulb moment, but it was the best decision I ever made because at that point I was the second partner in so that I rounded up the, the trio that we are. And we have since doubled the practice. Um, we've added three more doctors, our production, and, you know, our numbers have doubled since I bought in, so it was a fantastic investment for me.

But it was scary. It was, you know, I had to take out a massive loan di I didn't have any student loan debt. My parents were very gracious and allowed me to start life debt free. So I, I didn't know what debt looked like, so that was very scary to take that on. But I took a leap of faith and it was 100% worth it. Nice.

Ankit Patel: Nice.

Combined Speaker: [00:23:00] Well, that's,

Ankit Patel: um,

Combined Speaker: that's,

Ankit Patel: it's really

interesting. So you start, so if I'm hearing this right.

Combined Speaker: Um, you

Ankit Patel: you looked at the numbers and said, Hey, this seems like a good opportunity. What about, what about the internal dialogue? Like, tell us like, Hey, what were you thinking about?

Combined Speaker: was

Ankit Patel: was it like, like the struggle, like the emotional struggles behind it?

Combined Speaker: I think

Ankit Patel: Because I think maybe some people might wanna hear what

they,

Combined Speaker: went through 'cause. Yeah. Yeah.

I, it's, it's, it's scary to now know that your salary. Is, is 100% dependent on what you produce, what your clinic does. You know, when you're an associate, you're the, the pressure's off your, your, your boss is gonna pay you.

I, my boss, my partner actually told me there were times where I didn't pay myself early on so I could pay my team. That scared the mess out out of me. Like, oh my gosh, what if we get into that position where, you know, okay, let's say, let me, let me say this, COVID. That was a fantastic example I had just bought in the year before in [00:24:00] 20 19, 20 20.

Here comes COVID. And I, it was true the internal dialogue was yelling. It was like, what in the world were you thinking? Now you may not have a practice. You now have this massive loan, you know? But thankfully everything worked out. But you say the internal dialogue, I mean, there was a lot of, a lot of back and forth from being in a nice cushy position to now being stressed about.

Every little aspect of everything. Um, but I'm a big proponent of partnership. I, I, I can't imagine being the sole owner. And I think a lot of people will disagree with that, and that's fine. I just love having two wonderful partners to bounce things off of, to, um, just, just have that sisterhood that we, that we have, um, as being partners.

Because it doesn't all fall on me. We split everything up. The duties of being the manager and partner of our, our practice there, it, it. It's beautiful. It, it really is. I I wouldn't wanna do it all [00:25:00] alone. Yeah,

it's, it's definitely tough.

Yeah. I can't imagine. I really can't. Yeah, I,

Ankit Patel: I, I, yeah, I couldn't either. My wife, I partnered again on our practices, so that's fun. But

Combined Speaker: yeah,

Ankit Patel: yeah,

Combined Speaker: so

Ankit Patel: so thank you for sharing that because I think, you know, a lot of times you see the end picture, but

Combined Speaker: a lot

Ankit Patel: a lot of times people don't share like, oh, what was it in the moment? What was it

Combined Speaker: So appreciate you

Ankit Patel: you sharing that.

Combined Speaker: of course. So let,

Ankit Patel: let, let's shift gears just a little bit

Combined Speaker: and

Ankit Patel: and

Combined Speaker: tell me

Ankit Patel: me a little bit about. Uh,

Combined Speaker: uh,

Ankit Patel: an experience that formed you into who you are today

Combined Speaker: It

Ankit Patel: could have been when you are younger, high school, college, maybe more recently, but a really a formative moment in your life. Can you share something

Combined Speaker: that

with the audience?

Mm-hmm. So that's like, that's a really good question, but I immediately thought about this experience with my dad.

So when I was in college, I went to the University of Florida, go G. Um, I was unsure of what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to go into some sort of medical profession. I thought maybe ob, GYN, maybe. Podiatry. Oh [00:26:00] my goodness. Dentistry, I really had no idea. So somehow I ended up going to the eye doctor with my dad.

And he was, um, having a, an a bout of optic neuritis, which in retrospect, that was, that's very scary. You know, that could have been the precursor to MS or something. But my dad had, had a sudden loss of vision and, but he went to his optometrist. I went with him. And his doctor was so patient, so kind, and I just had never had an experience with an eye doctor.

I'd never actually been to the eye doctor, so that was my first like, okay, maybe optometry is where, where to go. So that's actually what catapulted me into thinking about optometry. Fast forward a few years from then, I was the second year in optometry school, went to. To, um, the same doctor with my dad for just another visit.

He was then diagnosed with a, a condition called keratoconus, and the doctor asked me as a second year student, he showed me the topography and he said, what do you think your dad had? By the grace of God, I knew that he had keratoconus, but then [00:27:00] he then subsequently put a contact lens on my dad and improved his vision from 2040 to 2015, which was my dad had tears pouring down his face, and I knew right then.

Like that, that's what I want to do. I, I want to have that impact on my patients. I want to be able to do something a little bit out of the norm. And so that, that really shifted everything. Having met him for the first time, diagnosing my dad with optic neuritis, then a few years later treating his keratoconus, I was just amazed that an optometrist could have that much impact on someone's life. Yeah.

Ankit Patel: Yeah. You know, it, it's, it's, funny you share that story. I tell, I tell my, my, my team,

Combined Speaker: a

Ankit Patel: a few years ago we had someone s you know.

Combined Speaker: they, They,

Ankit Patel: they called a few offices. Their eyelid was droopy.

Combined Speaker: couldn't get

Ankit Patel: get 'em in. It was a Saturday. And my, and our staff was like, yeah, you know, we're busy,

Combined Speaker: we

Ankit Patel: we need to see you.

Combined Speaker: Um,

Ankit Patel: turns out they had an aneurysm in the back of their eye, and so they

Combined Speaker: could've actually died if they waited till Monday.

Um,

don't know for sure if that would've been the case, but [00:28:00] it's and it could have been. Yeah, Yeah,

it could have been. So it's, this is amazing how much, you know, it's, uh,

people take

it for granted, the optometrist.

right?

100%.

That's a

Ankit Patel: a really cool story. I appreciate you sharing that.

Combined Speaker: Thank you.

Ankit Patel: Um, what, what is it that, um,

Combined Speaker: so tell

Ankit Patel: tell us a little bit about, uh, what you like to do for fun, like on

Combined Speaker: in

Ankit Patel: in your free time, your downtime

when you

Combined Speaker: Yeah. If you have any, being a, if I have any, right. yeah.

Being a parent of two kids, they are competitive athletes, so my daughter plays competitive volleyball.

My son plays competitive basketball. So a lot, most of my free time is with them and you know, supporting their dreams, which is a beautiful part of being a parent. But when I do get time to myself, I love to bike. So I have a stationary bike. I have, you know, the. Famous Peloton, but I love to just get out on the road and just bike that it, it's freeing, it allows my mind to just be, be, be free.

And I, I, it's, it's wonderful. And my, you know, my kids always wanna tag along, but I kind of say, you know, can mommy have this time [00:29:00] just to go? I let them go sometimes, but I really just, I need that debrief whenever I can get it. Just riding my bike through my neighborhood, honestly, I know that's kind of lame, but it means a lot to me.

You know, that, that 30 minutes to an hour, it's, it's rejuvenating. Yeah,

Ankit Patel: it's, it's something about that. I, I, I, I hear you. There's a couple things I do too, like that. It's just, just, you know,

Combined Speaker: need some time alone just to deep breath. So yes, I tell my kids I have run out of words for today. I let mommy just go be quiet and let me gain some more words.

I'll be back.

I like that. I'm gonna

use that one by the way.

Ankit Patel: the way. Uh,

Combined Speaker: Uh, so Ashley appreciate, uh, this, and if you wanna learn more about you or they want to ping you, if they have questions about myopia control, especially contact lenses, your institute, how, yeah. How can they reach you?

Yeah, I just, just shoot me an email.

Do you?

want me to say it out loud or how Uh, yeah, we, we'll put it in the show notes too.

Sure. So it's Ashley, A-S-H-L-E-Y, dot w dot tucker, T-U-C-K-E-R, at gmail.com. Email me anytime. I'd be happy to [00:30:00] chat.

Ankit Patel: Awesome.

Combined Speaker: I

Ankit Patel: Well, I appreciate that. Thank you. And then we'll, we'll also include in there your company and your LinkedIn

Combined Speaker: Yeah. so they can reach out to

Ankit Patel: out to you a couple different ways.

Combined Speaker: that'd be great. Well, well, thank you

again, Dr. Dr. Tucker, for being on the show.

Thank you. That was, that was so fun. I can't believe the time is already already over. Yeah, it,

Ankit Patel: it, it, it went by pretty quick. It was fun. Um.

Combined Speaker: Um,

Ankit Patel: And, and thank you audience, if you learn anything, uh, if you enjoyed it, please share the podcast or the

Combined Speaker: the

Ankit Patel: the YouTube channel with your friends and subscribe. And thank you again, Dr. Dr. Tucker, for being on this show. This has been another exciting episode of Optometrist

Combined Speaker: Building Empires.

We'll see you next time.

Ankit Patel: you next time.

[00:31:00]